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	<title>Comments for Subversive Influence</title>
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	<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com</link>
	<description>Live your faith.  Share your life.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:40:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Hymns of My Youth #105: Will the Circle Be Unbroken by morcy yetter</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2009/05/hymns-of-my-youth-105-will-the-circle-be-unbroken/comment-page-1/#comment-645510</link>
		<dc:creator>morcy yetter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversiveinfluence.com/?p=2797#comment-645510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i really felt this... i have it on my i pod and i listen to it when i walk on trees and when i sleep in my ocean raft.. thank you for making this the hymn of the mounth!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i really felt this&#8230; i have it on my i pod and i listen to it when i walk on trees and when i sleep in my ocean raft.. thank you for making this the hymn of the mounth!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Stacey Campbell Apologizes, but Doesn&#8217;t Own Up by ALBERTO CORNEJO</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/09/stacey-campbell-apologizes-but-doesnt-own-up/comment-page-1/#comment-645203</link>
		<dc:creator>ALBERTO CORNEJO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Mar 2013 04:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1811#comment-645203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I AM A PASTOR FROM EL SALVADOR AND I AGREE WITH YOU 100 % IN YOUR COMMENTS AND EVALUATION OF THIS SAD SITUATION. WE DON´T WANT TO CONTINUE RECEIVING THAT KIND OF PROPHETIC MINISTRIES THAT THE DEVIL IS USING TO DEVIATE THE CHURCH UNTO APOSTASY.
WHEN I SAW THE VERY FIRST TIME THE ECTASY WHEN STACY WAS UTTERING THE PROPHECY, INMEDIATLY I RECOGNIZED THE SAME SPIRIT OF ERROR WHO IS MOVING HERE IN EL SALVADOR IN SOME SIMILAR MOVEMENTS.
THANKS FOR YOUR POST. SORRY I COULDN,T BUY THE  CAMPBELLS SOUP HERE IN EL SALVADOR]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I AM A PASTOR FROM EL SALVADOR AND I AGREE WITH YOU 100 % IN YOUR COMMENTS AND EVALUATION OF THIS SAD SITUATION. WE DON´T WANT TO CONTINUE RECEIVING THAT KIND OF PROPHETIC MINISTRIES THAT THE DEVIL IS USING TO DEVIATE THE CHURCH UNTO APOSTASY.<br />
WHEN I SAW THE VERY FIRST TIME THE ECTASY WHEN STACY WAS UTTERING THE PROPHECY, INMEDIATLY I RECOGNIZED THE SAME SPIRIT OF ERROR WHO IS MOVING HERE IN EL SALVADOR IN SOME SIMILAR MOVEMENTS.<br />
THANKS FOR YOUR POST. SORRY I COULDN,T BUY THE  CAMPBELLS SOUP HERE IN EL SALVADOR</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Shepherding Movement by Martin</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/02/the-shepherding-movement/comment-page-2/#comment-644722</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Mar 2013 04:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1595#comment-644722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was a member of a shepherding church in Chicago during the &#039;70s and 80s. Gotta say it ... I think many abuse problems stem for male-only. patriarchal leadership. 

The ciurrent complentarian movement to define Bilblical Manhood &amp; Womanhood is more about &#039;manhood&#039; than anything else. It is good that they call males to greater acoountability and integrity, but they need not accomplish this by surpressing the movement of the Spirit among women.

.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a member of a shepherding church in Chicago during the &#8217;70s and 80s. Gotta say it &#8230; I think many abuse problems stem for male-only. patriarchal leadership. </p>
<p>The ciurrent complentarian movement to define Bilblical Manhood &amp; Womanhood is more about &#8216;manhood&#8217; than anything else. It is good that they call males to greater acoountability and integrity, but they need not accomplish this by surpressing the movement of the Spirit among women.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Shepherding Movement by Linda</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/02/the-shepherding-movement/comment-page-2/#comment-644154</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 23:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1595#comment-644154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ann Marie,

You are caught in the cross hairs of what is becoming a huge topic in Christendom today: disciples are NOT being made in the institutional churches today, and the church system is wondering why and therefore trying to remedy the problem with changes and ultimatums. 

The reason why there are these types of abuses today in the institutional church system is because it is patterned after the worldly corporate systems. After all, man is far from perfect and a man running a church is going to get pretty agitated when people start leaving, grumbling etc because there goes his livelihood. There were no &quot;leadership offices&quot; in the first century church. Christ was and is the ONLY Shepherd or leader of the church. I strongly urge you to find those who are truly devoted to serving God above all else, who see Christ as the one true Shepherd and gather with them.

Please do not throw out the baby (discipleship) with the bath water (the church you are in). Go back to the New Testament and read about Christ choosing the disciples, how they lived and learned together. Read about the women who became Christ&#039;s disciples. Read about the love all had for one another in the first century church. Then realize this: when Christ called the 12 men to &quot;follow me and become my disciples&quot;, fishers of men, they left everything and entered the inner court to reside with Jesus and learn from him. He called, they answered and became obedient. 

The reason why there are so few disciples today is because most to profess to belief in Christ remain in the outer court, ministering to each other, doing whatever they want to satisfy their spiritual longings with a minimum of output to God. They are not maturing and God cannot use them. That is why the church today has no power or authority over all the growing evil here and abroad. Being &#039;commissioned&quot; by men to do this or that in a church made with hands does not a disciple make. Doing does not make one a disciple. Christ first said, &quot;follow me&quot;. He did not send out the disciples until later (for instruction). God can not send us out to minister horizontally until we first come to him and learn to minister vertically to him (as did Moses and many others). 

You state you feel burdened: if we remain tethered to the world in us, in others, in some church system we reside in presently, this is going to be the case. Christ said to come to him, all who are heavy ladened and he will give you rest! Can you see the difference, between how this church you belong to is run compared to how the true Shepherd and leader, Jesus, cares for his sheep?

Ann Marie, I suggest you set aside all your present agenda and enter the inner court to minister to Father God. Hear and obey what he tells you and move forward into true discipleship/maturity. I guarantee you will not regret it. It will take courage and you may need to be in the desert while he teaches you, but it will be well worth it! Count the cost - move forward into freedom with Christ!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann Marie,</p>
<p>You are caught in the cross hairs of what is becoming a huge topic in Christendom today: disciples are NOT being made in the institutional churches today, and the church system is wondering why and therefore trying to remedy the problem with changes and ultimatums. </p>
<p>The reason why there are these types of abuses today in the institutional church system is because it is patterned after the worldly corporate systems. After all, man is far from perfect and a man running a church is going to get pretty agitated when people start leaving, grumbling etc because there goes his livelihood. There were no &#8220;leadership offices&#8221; in the first century church. Christ was and is the ONLY Shepherd or leader of the church. I strongly urge you to find those who are truly devoted to serving God above all else, who see Christ as the one true Shepherd and gather with them.</p>
<p>Please do not throw out the baby (discipleship) with the bath water (the church you are in). Go back to the New Testament and read about Christ choosing the disciples, how they lived and learned together. Read about the women who became Christ&#8217;s disciples. Read about the love all had for one another in the first century church. Then realize this: when Christ called the 12 men to &#8220;follow me and become my disciples&#8221;, fishers of men, they left everything and entered the inner court to reside with Jesus and learn from him. He called, they answered and became obedient. </p>
<p>The reason why there are so few disciples today is because most to profess to belief in Christ remain in the outer court, ministering to each other, doing whatever they want to satisfy their spiritual longings with a minimum of output to God. They are not maturing and God cannot use them. That is why the church today has no power or authority over all the growing evil here and abroad. Being &#8216;commissioned&#8221; by men to do this or that in a church made with hands does not a disciple make. Doing does not make one a disciple. Christ first said, &#8220;follow me&#8221;. He did not send out the disciples until later (for instruction). God can not send us out to minister horizontally until we first come to him and learn to minister vertically to him (as did Moses and many others). </p>
<p>You state you feel burdened: if we remain tethered to the world in us, in others, in some church system we reside in presently, this is going to be the case. Christ said to come to him, all who are heavy ladened and he will give you rest! Can you see the difference, between how this church you belong to is run compared to how the true Shepherd and leader, Jesus, cares for his sheep?</p>
<p>Ann Marie, I suggest you set aside all your present agenda and enter the inner court to minister to Father God. Hear and obey what he tells you and move forward into true discipleship/maturity. I guarantee you will not regret it. It will take courage and you may need to be in the desert while he teaches you, but it will be well worth it! Count the cost &#8211; move forward into freedom with Christ!</p>
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		<title>Comment on 20 Classic Christian Rock Albums by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/06/20-classic-christian-rock-albums/comment-page-1/#comment-644104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 19:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1678#comment-644104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sop good to read the list. I still have almost all of these albums.
Can anyone remeber the name on Mylon LeFevre&#039;s live album?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sop good to read the list. I still have almost all of these albums.<br />
Can anyone remeber the name on Mylon LeFevre&#8217;s live album?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Deconstruction:  Holmes on Homes by GEORGE</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/08/deconstruction-holmes-on-homes/comment-page-5/#comment-642529</link>
		<dc:creator>GEORGE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2013 07:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=345#comment-642529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was in construction in my college days. Heres a example of contruction. We were finishing a basement. We were all getting headaches, I noticed a drip from a exhaust pipe on the furnance. I inspected it and it was not glued. This was a brand new house! (Always check your furnance exhaust pipe yourself.) The inspectors never checked this. Everytime a city inspector came to check our work it was about 3 minutes. The ones that put more effort in were retarded saying things that were correct were not. We would convince them that they were wrong and they would be on there way. The best way to make sure the job is getting done right is to give your workers free pizza be nice, watch them, 1 or 2 free beers a day, ask questons but dont hover.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was in construction in my college days. Heres a example of contruction. We were finishing a basement. We were all getting headaches, I noticed a drip from a exhaust pipe on the furnance. I inspected it and it was not glued. This was a brand new house! (Always check your furnance exhaust pipe yourself.) The inspectors never checked this. Everytime a city inspector came to check our work it was about 3 minutes. The ones that put more effort in were retarded saying things that were correct were not. We would convince them that they were wrong and they would be on there way. The best way to make sure the job is getting done right is to give your workers free pizza be nice, watch them, 1 or 2 free beers a day, ask questons but dont hover.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Shepherding Movement by Brother Maynard</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/02/the-shepherding-movement/comment-page-2/#comment-640285</link>
		<dc:creator>Brother Maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 01:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1595#comment-640285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ann Marie,

Obviously I don&#039;t know all the intricacies involved, by in general I suspect you need to leave, and be candid about why. It doesn&#039;t sound like this is a situation that&#039;s about to change, but getting people to talk about it and about what&#039;s going on that is wrong may help others to find the courage to move on to a safer place.

Look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://churchexiters.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Barb Orlowski&#039;s website&lt;/a&gt; and book, as well as Rob McAlpine&#039;s book referenced above. Searching online generally for information on spiritual abuse will get you pointed in the right direction. The shepherding movement is spiritual abuse, pure and simple, though people don&#039;t use the same terminology as much now -- hence the more general search terms.

At the end of the day, it will be difficult, but the last thing that will be helpful for you and your spiritual growth is to stay put, even if you&#039;re convinced that you can help bring change. From all I&#039;ve seen, bringing the kind of change necessary is extremely unlikely without a significant number of senior leaders on your side against the direction that&#039;s being taken.

Hope this helps!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann Marie,</p>
<p>Obviously I don&#8217;t know all the intricacies involved, by in general I suspect you need to leave, and be candid about why. It doesn&#8217;t sound like this is a situation that&#8217;s about to change, but getting people to talk about it and about what&#8217;s going on that is wrong may help others to find the courage to move on to a safer place.</p>
<p>Look at <a href="http://churchexiters.com/" rel="nofollow">Barb Orlowski&#8217;s website</a> and book, as well as Rob McAlpine&#8217;s book referenced above. Searching online generally for information on spiritual abuse will get you pointed in the right direction. The shepherding movement is spiritual abuse, pure and simple, though people don&#8217;t use the same terminology as much now &#8212; hence the more general search terms.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, it will be difficult, but the last thing that will be helpful for you and your spiritual growth is to stay put, even if you&#8217;re convinced that you can help bring change. From all I&#8217;ve seen, bringing the kind of change necessary is extremely unlikely without a significant number of senior leaders on your side against the direction that&#8217;s being taken.</p>
<p>Hope this helps!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Shepherding Movement by Ann Marie</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/02/the-shepherding-movement/comment-page-2/#comment-640277</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1595#comment-640277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HI Everyone, HELP!
My church has begun to take a drastick direction into discipleship. In fact, that is the only thing they say they are about now. Having been somewhat in the Shepherding movement of the 70&#039;a and 80&#039;s, I am seeing some of the same things happening. first off, love seems to be getting colder. If you are not with it, then leave is the new motif. The pastor used to be a &quot;hands off&quot; kind of guy. I am the youth director in the church. As a youth director, control is the new  paradyme. If it is not &quot;discipleship&quot; then we really don&#039;t want it is the new motto. I am getting to HATE the word discipleship. How sad. I am so burdened by the direction of the church now. The pastor says the building won&#039;t be here in 5 years because they will all be meeting in homes. so the 40 year old preschool will now be shut down in the next fews years. It seems he is trying to dismantle the church in the name of discipleship. Many people are leaving and many are confused. Any suggestions?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI Everyone, HELP!<br />
My church has begun to take a drastick direction into discipleship. In fact, that is the only thing they say they are about now. Having been somewhat in the Shepherding movement of the 70&#8242;a and 80&#8242;s, I am seeing some of the same things happening. first off, love seems to be getting colder. If you are not with it, then leave is the new motif. The pastor used to be a &#8220;hands off&#8221; kind of guy. I am the youth director in the church. As a youth director, control is the new  paradyme. If it is not &#8220;discipleship&#8221; then we really don&#8217;t want it is the new motto. I am getting to HATE the word discipleship. How sad. I am so burdened by the direction of the church now. The pastor says the building won&#8217;t be here in 5 years because they will all be meeting in homes. so the 40 year old preschool will now be shut down in the next fews years. It seems he is trying to dismantle the church in the name of discipleship. Many people are leaving and many are confused. Any suggestions?</p>
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		<title>Comment on 20 Classic Christian Rock Albums by Tom Mcbride</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/06/20-classic-christian-rock-albums/comment-page-1/#comment-639443</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Mcbride</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2013 01:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1678#comment-639443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marvin Gaye  What&#039;s going on. One of the most soulful inspiring lps of all in my opinion. 
Smoky Robinson was given a demo while Marvin was still working on his masterpiece. 
Smoky was blown away and asked Marvin who was producing this stuff, Marvin replied, The Lord!

JESUS LOVE YOU.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marvin Gaye  What&#8217;s going on. One of the most soulful inspiring lps of all in my opinion.<br />
Smoky Robinson was given a demo while Marvin was still working on his masterpiece.<br />
Smoky was blown away and asked Marvin who was producing this stuff, Marvin replied, The Lord!</p>
<p>JESUS LOVE YOU.</p>
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		<title>Comment on HoMY 33:  The Huron Carol by AVKC</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/12/homy-33-the-huron-carol/comment-page-1/#comment-638201</link>
		<dc:creator>AVKC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1488#comment-638201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have always loved this song, and Heather does it the best I&#039;ve ever heard.  I am seeking the original frenchlyrics for it.  After all, Jean de Brebeuf was the writer, and it was done in Quebec, la Nouvelle France, so many centuries ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always loved this song, and Heather does it the best I&#8217;ve ever heard.  I am seeking the original frenchlyrics for it.  After all, Jean de Brebeuf was the writer, and it was done in Quebec, la Nouvelle France, so many centuries ago.</p>
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