This morning I caught an interesting segment on CBC’s The Current, with Anna Maria Tremonti interviewing Philip Zimbardo (RealAudio). Similar to the Milgram Experiment, Zimbardo has explored the question of what makes otherwise good people act evil, stepping well beyond their own ethical boundaries. The segment intro:
The Current: The Lucifer Effect
The now infamous Stanford Prison Experiment occurred back in 1971, when a psychologist at Stanford University named Phil Zimbardo gathered 20 perfectly healthy and mentally stable young volunteers. He randomly assigned them to the role of either prisoner or guard. The prisoners got workclothes and had their names replaced with numbers. The guards got billy clubs and sunglasses to obscure their faces. The guards’ only task was to maintain order among the prisoners. The experiment was supposed to last two weeks, but after six days it had to be shut down because the guards were humiliating and tormenting the prisoners with an intensity no one had predicted.
Phil Zimbardo has since used the experience as a way of understanding why seemingly moral people commit horrific acts. He became especially interested in the abuse that took place in Abu Ghraib, the U.S. military-run prison in Iraq. He details his work in his latest book called The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil. Phil Zimbardo joined us from San Francisco.
The interview was fascinating. I’ve previously questioned whether the ecclesiological structures and systems we set up are inherently detrimental or dangerous to those leaders within it. “Power corrupts.” Zimbardo’s questions and thesis support the asking of the question, but his research obviously goes way beyond what I was suggesting and into much bleaker circumstances. He suggests that the system itself can be constructed not only to allow evil behaviour, but encourages it… and in essence, can make it seem almost unavoidable. He began with some unexpected consequences from The Stanford Prison Experiment and made an ongoing study of the question.
I spent some time poking around The Lucifer Effect website, and discovered that among many other resources, there’s a theology blog, Lucifer Goes to Church. As well, he pressed the question from the opposite side, asking conversely what causes people to be pressed into heroic action, and how we can resist the influence of systems which encourage us toward evil behaviour. I’ve got more reading to do, but the subject is quite a fascinating one that ties into a number of global situations and helping to understand some of the dynamics at work.
This quote came from a little piece in the sidebar of the blog: “What does it take for the citizens of one society to hate the citizens of another society to the degree that they want to segregate them, torment them, even to kill them?”
This is a question that plagues me quite often. I know some of the answer now, having lived through this mess we’ve (U.S.) created in Iraq. But, I still can’t answer it fully.
The study of the social dynamics of systemic evil is interesting.
A quote my husband read to me recently…
“Under pressure from the ruthless, the clueless combined with the spineless to achieve the worthless.”
..and it wasn’t about our CLB.
I have regularly said at my church, in sermons, and with complete honesty, that no one is in a more dangerous position, spiritually, than the minister. We may not be able to save ourselves. Might not be able to do it even if you gave your life to it. that’s why I think the day will come when I will step down from this.
There’s just something innately with getting an education that means you will have to be a pastor to live, and then having the “performance” of your church be the standard by which you are judged. There’s something innately wrong with the role you have to play. Something wrong with thinking you can care about everyone and having every cause take a piece of your heart.
dangerous.
thw question being asked here is not the rite one. that is becuz there are no good people. everyone has hated, and lied or cheated at one point in their life. that is becuz everyone has a desire inside of themselves to be in control of their own lives. look at the american experiment. the founding fathers of the states were devout christians. but ever since america has fallen away from their historical background, things have gone horribly wrong. thats becuz with out a moral standerd, without absalute truth, people will do wat ever they want. they will follow their heart. what if their desire is to kill? that is why we must put God first in our lives, and let him direct our desires, becuze he knows wat is best.