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	<title>Comments on: Sorting Missional Characteristics</title>
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	<description>Live your faith.  Share your life.</description>
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		<title>By: What is Incarnational Ecclesiology? &#124; Lo-Fi Tribe</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-375694</link>
		<dc:creator>What is Incarnational Ecclesiology? &#124; Lo-Fi Tribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 05:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-375694</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve been collecting definitions for &#8220;Incarnational Ecclesiology,&#8221; mostly from Emerging and/or Emergent Church writers and bloggers. Why? Well, because I believe in it. I think we should live it. I believe that the Good News of Jesus Christ and the supernatural movement proceeding should organically bloom in a given context. In other words, it should grow from the inside. So, individuals called to missional activity should plant where they live and interact everyday with authentic friends and neighbors. Moving into a differentiated cultural context for the singular purpose of making converts or church-goers is not incarnational ministry, at least according to the following definitions: Draft definition: The immersion in the life of Jesus rooted and growing in a particular context. Emergent Kiwi. Stage 5 - Incarnational Faith Communities - Also known as the Emerging Missional Church. I sense this is where many of us are at today. The key difference between this arrangement and its predecessors is that IFCs seek to understand the culture first, then do mission and from there create worshiping communities. It is a go to them approach rather than a come to us - a fundamental reconfiguration of the DNA. Emerging Church Info Why isn&#8217;t the emerging church getting criticized for its trinitarian missiology? Why not? Its at the heart of what we are doing and it flies in the face of an imbalanced attachment to a particular person of the Trinity at the expense of the Godhood and a whole gospel. What about being too literal in following the incarnational example of Jesus? Of being extreme in going to his level of contextualization and yet maintaining integrity and purity? Tall Skinny Kiwi By contrast the incarnational approach to mission is refreshingly simple. It requires us to live amongst the people in our communities, love them, share the good news of the kingdom both in action and in speech and then as people become followers of Christ to form up indigenous communities of faith that reflect the specific context. Backyard Missionary Incarnational rather than attractional ministry. Church goes to people rather than getting people to come to church. Subversive Influence A missional community is a group of Jesus&#8217; apprentices who so trust his brilliance and mastery of life, that they learn from him how to be like him for the sake of the world. Through this apprentice/master relationship, the community journeys together to become the fullness of God and thereby become a finite earthly expression of the infinite Tri-Community just as Jesus was in his earthly life. A missional community is about becoming by grace what Christ is by nature. As the community experiences this, wherever the community members live their daily lives, they are learning how to easily, naturally, and routinely embody, demonstrate and announce God&#8217;s life and reign for the sake of the world around them. The Off Ramp &#8220;Missional&#8221; is not the same as &#8220;mission-minded,&#8221; &#8230; A &#8220;missional church&#8221; is a church that acts like a missionary in its community &#8230; A missional church responds to the sending commands of Jesus by becoming an incarnational, indigenous, and intentional Gospel presence in its context. When Jesus said, &#8220;As the Father has sent Me, so send I you,&#8221; (John 20:21) that was not to a select group of cross-cultural missionaries. Instead, that was a commission to you, me and our churches. We have a sender (Jesus), a message (the Gospel), and a people to whom we are sent (real people in culture). It is worth the effort to go beyond our personal preferences and to proclaim a faithful Gospel in whatever context we find ourselves. That&#8217;s missional. Christian Index They no longer see the church service as the primary connecting point with those outside the community. Connecting with those outside happens within the culture, by insiders to that culture who express the gospel through how they live. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve been collecting definitions for &#8220;Incarnational Ecclesiology,&#8221; mostly from Emerging and/or Emergent Church writers and bloggers. Why? Well, because I believe in it. I think we should live it. I believe that the Good News of Jesus Christ and the supernatural movement proceeding should organically bloom in a given context. In other words, it should grow from the inside. So, individuals called to missional activity should plant where they live and interact everyday with authentic friends and neighbors. Moving into a differentiated cultural context for the singular purpose of making converts or church-goers is not incarnational ministry, at least according to the following definitions: Draft definition: The immersion in the life of Jesus rooted and growing in a particular context. Emergent Kiwi. Stage 5 &#8211; Incarnational Faith Communities &#8211; Also known as the Emerging Missional Church. I sense this is where many of us are at today. The key difference between this arrangement and its predecessors is that IFCs seek to understand the culture first, then do mission and from there create worshiping communities. It is a go to them approach rather than a come to us &#8211; a fundamental reconfiguration of the DNA. Emerging Church Info Why isn&#8217;t the emerging church getting criticized for its trinitarian missiology? Why not? Its at the heart of what we are doing and it flies in the face of an imbalanced attachment to a particular person of the Trinity at the expense of the Godhood and a whole gospel. What about being too literal in following the incarnational example of Jesus? Of being extreme in going to his level of contextualization and yet maintaining integrity and purity? Tall Skinny Kiwi By contrast the incarnational approach to mission is refreshingly simple. It requires us to live amongst the people in our communities, love them, share the good news of the kingdom both in action and in speech and then as people become followers of Christ to form up indigenous communities of faith that reflect the specific context. Backyard Missionary Incarnational rather than attractional ministry. Church goes to people rather than getting people to come to church. Subversive Influence A missional community is a group of Jesus&#8217; apprentices who so trust his brilliance and mastery of life, that they learn from him how to be like him for the sake of the world. Through this apprentice/master relationship, the community journeys together to become the fullness of God and thereby become a finite earthly expression of the infinite Tri-Community just as Jesus was in his earthly life. A missional community is about becoming by grace what Christ is by nature. As the community experiences this, wherever the community members live their daily lives, they are learning how to easily, naturally, and routinely embody, demonstrate and announce God&#8217;s life and reign for the sake of the world around them. The Off Ramp &#8220;Missional&#8221; is not the same as &#8220;mission-minded,&#8221; &#8230; A &#8220;missional church&#8221; is a church that acts like a missionary in its community &#8230; A missional church responds to the sending commands of Jesus by becoming an incarnational, indigenous, and intentional Gospel presence in its context. When Jesus said, &#8220;As the Father has sent Me, so send I you,&#8221; (John 20:21) that was not to a select group of cross-cultural missionaries. Instead, that was a commission to you, me and our churches. We have a sender (Jesus), a message (the Gospel), and a people to whom we are sent (real people in culture). It is worth the effort to go beyond our personal preferences and to proclaim a faithful Gospel in whatever context we find ourselves. That&#8217;s missional. Christian Index They no longer see the church service as the primary connecting point with those outside the community. Connecting with those outside happens within the culture, by insiders to that culture who express the gospel through how they live. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Chouinard</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-374376</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Chouinard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-374376</guid>
		<description>I wonder about the absence of a foundational Kingdom theology, and the centrality of Jesus&#039; ministry for shaping both the form and focus of an  incarnational mission?   Do we need more about how a missional church infuses its people with missional DNA (ala Hirsch)? What role does virtue and justice have in the missional church?  Does anything distinguish a missional church when they assemble?  Thanks for a stimulating article and the conversation that followed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder about the absence of a foundational Kingdom theology, and the centrality of Jesus&#8217; ministry for shaping both the form and focus of an  incarnational mission?   Do we need more about how a missional church infuses its people with missional DNA (ala Hirsch)? What role does virtue and justice have in the missional church?  Does anything distinguish a missional church when they assemble?  Thanks for a stimulating article and the conversation that followed.</p>
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		<title>By: Calacirian &#187; Christendom? Post-Christendom?</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-374069</link>
		<dc:creator>Calacirian &#187; Christendom? Post-Christendom?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-374069</guid>
		<description>[...] Brother Maynard did a very thorough series last week on the definition of missional. If you missed it, get a cup of coffee (or something), make sure you&#8217;ve set aside a goodly chunk of time and read through these articles (One, Two, Three, and Four). I think he totalled up the words at the end of the week to about 13,000. They&#8217;re all good, as is usual with Bro. M. And I agreed with most of what he has to say (not that what I think matters a hill of beans, mind you). But there were a couple of references to things like &#8220;our Christian heritage&#8221; and &#8220;Christendom v. post-Christendom,&#8221; that got me thinking. Not that I necessarily disagreed, but something about them made me think and ponder &#8230; hard. Here the quotes that got me pondering: From Sorting Missional Characteristics [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brother Maynard did a very thorough series last week on the definition of missional. If you missed it, get a cup of coffee (or something), make sure you&#8217;ve set aside a goodly chunk of time and read through these articles (One, Two, Three, and Four). I think he totalled up the words at the end of the week to about 13,000. They&#8217;re all good, as is usual with Bro. M. And I agreed with most of what he has to say (not that what I think matters a hill of beans, mind you). But there were a couple of references to things like &#8220;our Christian heritage&#8221; and &#8220;Christendom v. post-Christendom,&#8221; that got me thinking. Not that I necessarily disagreed, but something about them made me think and ponder &#8230; hard. Here the quotes that got me pondering: From Sorting Missional Characteristics [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy-lu</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-373863</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy-lu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-373863</guid>
		<description>Rick,  I was thinking the same thing about post-christendom - that it is not an accurate statement of the global environment, even if it does capture my own place in it.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick,  I was thinking the same thing about post-christendom &#8211; that it is not an accurate statement of the global environment, even if it does capture my own place in it.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Meigs</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-373805</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Meigs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 00:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-373805</guid>
		<description>Since Cindy got me thinking on the &quot;Post-Christendom&quot; point, I would mention that not all regions of the USA are post-Christian and there are parts of the world which were never Christian to begin with and therefore can&#039;t be post-Christian. Should not the list account for this so that it doesn&#039;t become progressive western centric?

(Oh, I was just reading your response and note the &quot;that it should probably appear under nuance.&quot; I like that.)

Using the phase &quot;rather than&quot; does create in my mind a rather &quot;black and white&quot; distinction. For example, if I just read &quot;Near rather than far,&quot; I come away with the feeling that we need to drop &quot;far&quot; and focus on &quot;near.&quot;

&quot;Being rather than doing&quot; and &quot;Mindset rather than set of actions.&quot; I love these two!

I may have missed it, but isn&#039;t being missional also about furthering Jesus  message of reconciliation and a whole gospel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Cindy got me thinking on the &#8220;Post-Christendom&#8221; point, I would mention that not all regions of the USA are post-Christian and there are parts of the world which were never Christian to begin with and therefore can&#8217;t be post-Christian. Should not the list account for this so that it doesn&#8217;t become progressive western centric?</p>
<p>(Oh, I was just reading your response and note the &#8220;that it should probably appear under nuance.&#8221; I like that.)</p>
<p>Using the phase &#8220;rather than&#8221; does create in my mind a rather &#8220;black and white&#8221; distinction. For example, if I just read &#8220;Near rather than far,&#8221; I come away with the feeling that we need to drop &#8220;far&#8221; and focus on &#8220;near.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Being rather than doing&#8221; and &#8220;Mindset rather than set of actions.&#8221; I love these two!</p>
<p>I may have missed it, but isn&#8217;t being missional also about furthering Jesus  message of reconciliation and a whole gospel?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kinnon</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-373790</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kinnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-373790</guid>
		<description>Apologies. Should have block quoted the previous Quoth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies. Should have block quoted the previous Quoth.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kinnon</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-373788</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kinnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-373788</guid>
		<description>Perhaps a good way to say it is that &lt;i&gt;the charge to participate in the Missio Dei is a call to missional action directed not only to the corporate body, but also to each individual within the body.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;b&gt;Indeed!&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps a good way to say it is that <i>the charge to participate in the Missio Dei is a call to missional action directed not only to the corporate body, but also to each individual within the body.</i></p>
<p><b>Indeed!</b></p>
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		<title>By: Brother Maynard</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-373785</link>
		<dc:creator>Brother Maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-373785</guid>
		<description>Now that I&#039;m finally passing by the computer for pretty much the first time since posting in the wee hours, I see we have some good discussion going... and you&#039;re all correct.

First, post-Christendom.  I stuck this one under missionally-purposed since the post-Christendom awareness becomes a motivator for missional methodology (&lt;em&gt;i.e.&lt;/em&gt; yes, it&#039;s contextualization).  Awareness of this is in fact one of the key factors that first gave rise to missional thought as we know it, so it&#039;s very common to include it as part of missional thought &#8212; but strictly speaking, it&#039;s more nuance.  I&#039;m certain I actually said that or something like it in my last post, the long one, when I was talking about being missional to moderns and so forth, except that I said it might be moot now since we can&#039;t turn back the clock.  I think I was writing too bleary-eyed... I would see this along the lines of my earlier statement and what Cindy-lu and Jamie have stated here, namely that it should probably appear under nuance.

Second, &quot;ahead of&quot; vs. &quot;rather than&quot; &#8212; the preamble to the list got dropped or rewritten.  The list of characteristics I offer should have a lead-in like, &quot;Missional church emphasizes:&quot; &#8212; if you prepend this for each of those bullet points, I think it would clarify my intent that &quot;rather than&quot; refers to a shift in emphasis more than to a complete substitution.  In an absolute sense, I&#039;m not in favour of the substitution, even where the two primary distinctives are concerned.  The people of God (the church) share in the &lt;em&gt;Missio Dei&lt;/em&gt;, but I wouldn&#039;t want to say that no other purposes exist or were served along the way.  Similarly, I don&#039;t mean to ditch attractional practice &lt;em&gt;entirely&lt;/em&gt;, as I believe that true functioning community is &lt;em&gt;inherently attractive&lt;/em&gt;, and that a display of such community will draw people... but that wouldn&#039;t be my only hat-hook, and the emphasis needs to be incarnational.

Concerning an emphasis on the individual, I think this probably bears further comment.  The individualism of the Marlboro Man and Consumer Church&#8482; is more the stuff of bootstrapping narcissism.  What I have in mind is an individual response, outward-focused for extrinsic purposes rather than self-serving action.  Whereas consumer church is others serving me, the individual response I&#039;m discussing is me serving others.  You&#039;re right Bill, in that I need to state cautiously (and perhaps I sounded more balanced in my last post) this individual component, as I &lt;em&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; want it to be misunderstood and viewed through mega-CLB glasses.  Part of my concern in this came out in Rick&#039;s comment on my long post, that a missional congregation was not a necessary component of missional action, rather a missional congregation is a concentration of missional action.  That is, a missional emphasis places a burden of missional response on each member of the body.  That said, there are &lt;em&gt;most definitely&lt;/em&gt; aspects of &quot;church&quot; as the body of Christ that cannot be manifested individually, and missional people will I believe gravitate together to express those aspects in concert with one another.  Perhaps a good way to say it is that &lt;em&gt;the charge to participate in the &lt;em&gt;Missio Dei&lt;/em&gt; is a call to missional action directed not only to the corporate body, but also to each individual within the body.&lt;/em&gt;

Better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that I&#8217;m finally passing by the computer for pretty much the first time since posting in the wee hours, I see we have some good discussion going&#8230; and you&#8217;re all correct.</p>
<p>First, post-Christendom.  I stuck this one under missionally-purposed since the post-Christendom awareness becomes a motivator for missional methodology (<em>i.e.</em> yes, it&#8217;s contextualization).  Awareness of this is in fact one of the key factors that first gave rise to missional thought as we know it, so it&#8217;s very common to include it as part of missional thought &#8212; but strictly speaking, it&#8217;s more nuance.  I&#8217;m certain I actually said that or something like it in my last post, the long one, when I was talking about being missional to moderns and so forth, except that I said it might be moot now since we can&#8217;t turn back the clock.  I think I was writing too bleary-eyed&#8230; I would see this along the lines of my earlier statement and what Cindy-lu and Jamie have stated here, namely that it should probably appear under nuance.</p>
<p>Second, &#8220;ahead of&#8221; vs. &#8220;rather than&#8221; &#8212; the preamble to the list got dropped or rewritten.  The list of characteristics I offer should have a lead-in like, &#8220;Missional church emphasizes:&#8221; &#8212; if you prepend this for each of those bullet points, I think it would clarify my intent that &#8220;rather than&#8221; refers to a shift in emphasis more than to a complete substitution.  In an absolute sense, I&#8217;m not in favour of the substitution, even where the two primary distinctives are concerned.  The people of God (the church) share in the <em>Missio Dei</em>, but I wouldn&#8217;t want to say that no other purposes exist or were served along the way.  Similarly, I don&#8217;t mean to ditch attractional practice <em>entirely</em>, as I believe that true functioning community is <em>inherently attractive</em>, and that a display of such community will draw people&#8230; but that wouldn&#8217;t be my only hat-hook, and the emphasis needs to be incarnational.</p>
<p>Concerning an emphasis on the individual, I think this probably bears further comment.  The individualism of the Marlboro Man and Consumer Church&trade; is more the stuff of bootstrapping narcissism.  What I have in mind is an individual response, outward-focused for extrinsic purposes rather than self-serving action.  Whereas consumer church is others serving me, the individual response I&#8217;m discussing is me serving others.  You&#8217;re right Bill, in that I need to state cautiously (and perhaps I sounded more balanced in my last post) this individual component, as I <em>don&#8217;t</em> want it to be misunderstood and viewed through mega-CLB glasses.  Part of my concern in this came out in Rick&#8217;s comment on my long post, that a missional congregation was not a necessary component of missional action, rather a missional congregation is a concentration of missional action.  That is, a missional emphasis places a burden of missional response on each member of the body.  That said, there are <em>most definitely</em> aspects of &#8220;church&#8221; as the body of Christ that cannot be manifested individually, and missional people will I believe gravitate together to express those aspects in concert with one another.  Perhaps a good way to say it is that <em>the charge to participate in the </em><em>Missio Dei</em> is a call to missional action directed not only to the corporate body, but also to each individual within the body.</p>
<p>Better?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kinnon</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-373754</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kinnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-373754</guid>
		<description>Hmmm. I&#039;m finding a little too much emphasis on the individual. One of the problems with the North American church has been it&#039;s reflection of NA society - the importance of the &quot;I&quot;. &#039;Tis all about me, doncha know! &#039;Twas strong rugged individuals like the Marlboro man who built NA, right!?

Though I struggle with most NA iterations of church &quot;community&quot;, I strongly believe that we are called to live and respond missionally within the context of community. As you state in the &quot;Inclusive rather...&quot; point, the emphasis needs to be on the &quot;we&quot;.

We need to be careful that we don&#039;t just interpret &lt;i&gt;missional&lt;/i&gt; through a &lt;b&gt;People Formerly Known As/CLB&lt;/b&gt; lens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm. I&#8217;m finding a little too much emphasis on the individual. One of the problems with the North American church has been it&#8217;s reflection of NA society &#8211; the importance of the &#8220;I&#8221;. &#8216;Tis all about me, doncha know! &#8216;Twas strong rugged individuals like the Marlboro man who built NA, right!?</p>
<p>Though I struggle with most NA iterations of church &#8220;community&#8221;, I strongly believe that we are called to live and respond missionally within the context of community. As you state in the &#8220;Inclusive rather&#8230;&#8221; point, the emphasis needs to be on the &#8220;we&#8221;.</p>
<p>We need to be careful that we don&#8217;t just interpret <i>missional</i> through a <b>People Formerly Known As/CLB</b> lens.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Arpin-Ricci</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2007/08/sorting-missional-characteristics/comment-page-1/#comment-373753</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Arpin-Ricci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=1355#comment-373753</guid>
		<description>Great thoughts, as always.  I think I&#039;m with Cindy on the &quot;Post-Christendom&quot; point.  I see that, perhaps, as an example of contextualization.  Anyway, keep it up!

Peace,
Jamie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thoughts, as always.  I think I&#8217;m with Cindy on the &#8220;Post-Christendom&#8221; point.  I see that, perhaps, as an example of contextualization.  Anyway, keep it up!</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Jamie</p>
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