The quote by Jason Zahariades gives me pause, not because of it’s take on “missional”, but because I personally hesitate when I see the possibility that some will base their faith entirely on the few writings we have of the life of Jesus and ignore the rest of the revelation we have of God in scripture. I won’t go on about it, but the “yellow” flags go up (not quite red, yet).

I’ve been eating up Francis Schaeffer books for the last year and they give a fantastic historical support for the idea that we now live in a post-Christian west. For instance, much of the development of western culture has come from Christian assumptions/foundations which have since been discarded. For example: modern science was built on the idea that the world was made by a God who is orderly and therefore we have reason to expect that the universe is orderly and that there are answers to be found. In contrast, while eastern communities such as China saw early massive cultural growth they had no such foundational belief that there were orderly, logical answers to be found and thus, they did not develop as far in the field of science. Schaeffer coins the term “modern modern science” to reflect that although scientists now still believe there is order and answers to be found, they have given up the foundation necessary to that belief. Hence, post-christian. (Of course, I’m paraphrasing and cannot say it half as eloquently as Schaeffer.)

Interesting post, Maynard…

I was particularly stirred by the Ed Stetzer quotes. Something just resonated with me. I may actually have to dig up a few extra hours in my day to go read his current work ;-)

I found Ryan Bolger’s quote particularly centered around the post-christendom idea, as there was a time in our history where the church WAS the cultural meeting place.

Thomas’ first quote especially stirred up some nostalgia for me, as it seems that’s the message I’ve been taught all along (Brethren roots, dontcha know). Up until my time in the charismatic circle I’ve always been in smaller, family-like churches. The audience mentality is still a rather new and puzzling phenomenon for me, as is the “pastor as CEO” idea.

What I do find interesting is how “getting people into the church” is perceived. I can see where some would find the numbers to be a measure of church health and growth, but is it possible that negating the idea of bringing people into church is primarily a reaction against that particular motivation?

I know someone who is thrilled to find her son and his family coming to church – not because it fills up the seats, but because in her mind it means that they are taking their faith seriously enough to take initiative and seek out instruction in truth, faith, and life. This woman has been missional in every sense you’ve defined for as long as I’ve known her. She does not put agendas on her relationships, but does long to see her neighbours and friends become seekers of God. For her, to see any of them integrate themselves into the local church community means that they are seriously seeking truth beyond what she alone can give them. And more truth means more opportunity for life-change, doesn’t it?

So, while bringing people into a Sunday morning meeting may not be the primary goal, is it not worthwhile to retain the value of providing a place/relationship base where a seeker can “go deeper” when they are ready to take that initiative?

Running on at the keyboard again… sheesh!

One thing I’ve been chewing on all week is the notion of post-Christendom v. Christendom and whether those concepts are indeed important. I know it’s a generally accepted tenet that the West has been Christendom for the better part of at least 1500 years +/-. But I’m not really certain we can say that everyone in the West were altogether Christ-followers during that time. I think that was an assumption that was made by leaders because everyone (or most everyone) was in church. I’m not really certain where I’m going with this … but I wonder if that sort of dualism is really necessary? I need to think about it some more and re-read some of what you’ve written, etc.