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	<title>Comments on: Carson v. Emergent v. Forge</title>
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	<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/</link>
	<description>Live your faith.  Share your life.</description>
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		<title>By: Forging Out Response to DA Carson » Duncan Macleod</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-440332</link>
		<dc:creator>Forging Out Response to DA Carson » Duncan Macleod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-440332</guid>
		<description>[...] the post. 9.25 am Andrew Hamilton places an apology from Alan Hirsch and withdraws the pdf. 9.43 am Subversive Influence post 4.30 pm I finally get to read the document I&#8217;d printed out earlier. I post something here and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the post. 9.25 am Andrew Hamilton places an apology from Alan Hirsch and withdraws the pdf. 9.43 am Subversive Influence post 4.30 pm I finally get to read the document I&#8217;d printed out earlier. I post something here and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pacific Highlander &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Forging Out</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-11149</link>
		<dc:creator>Pacific Highlander &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Forging Out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 00:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-11149</guid>
		<description>[...] Friday July 22 1.16 Steve McCoy of Reformisssionary posts on Drawing Lines. and again at Emerging SBC Leaders. 2.09 am Stephen Shields gives his commentary at Emergesque. 9.20 am Jordon Cooper points out that despite advanced technology, we do a lousy job of talking to each other. What might have happened if Carson had sat down and talked with McLaren? What might Frost and Hirsch&#8217;s paper looked like if they&#8217;d included McLaren&#8217;s input? He&#8217;s since deleted the post. 9.25 am Andrew Hamilton places an apology from Alan Hirsch and withdraws the pdf. 9.43 am Subversive Influence post 4.30 pm I finally get to read the document I&#8217;d printed out earlier. I post something here and then discover the conversation&#8217;s happened already. I delete the post when I get home later in the evening. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Friday July 22 1.16 Steve McCoy of Reformisssionary posts on Drawing Lines. and again at Emerging SBC Leaders. 2.09 am Stephen Shields gives his commentary at Emergesque. 9.20 am Jordon Cooper points out that despite advanced technology, we do a lousy job of talking to each other. What might have happened if Carson had sat down and talked with McLaren? What might Frost and Hirsch&#8217;s paper looked like if they&#8217;d included McLaren&#8217;s input? He&#8217;s since deleted the post. 9.25 am Andrew Hamilton places an apology from Alan Hirsch and withdraws the pdf. 9.43 am Subversive Influence post 4.30 pm I finally get to read the document I&#8217;d printed out earlier. I post something here and then discover the conversation&#8217;s happened already. I delete the post when I get home later in the evening. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: faithCommons</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8591</link>
		<dc:creator>faithCommons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8591</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Lies and Damn Lies and the Christianity-Industrial Complex&lt;/strong&gt;

 Beware the power of the Christianity-Industrial Complex.
In recent weeks, the heat has been turned up by evangelicals and theologians on the just simmering pot that is Emerging Church.  During the ensuing storm, Brian McLaren has taken most of the strike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Lies and Damn Lies and the Christianity-Industrial Complex</strong></p>
<p> Beware the power of the Christianity-Industrial Complex.<br />
In recent weeks, the heat has been turned up by evangelicals and theologians on the just simmering pot that is Emerging Church.  During the ensuing storm, Brian McLaren has taken most of the strike</p>
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		<title>By: robbymac</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8498</link>
		<dc:creator>robbymac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 23:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8498</guid>
		<description>This whole thing reminds me of the &quot;centered set&quot; analogy that the Vineyard had to look at back in the day. I had downloaded the PDF earlier today, so I had a chance to read it, but I won&#039;t be commenting on it here or at my blog. In fact, I just &quot;trashed&quot; the PDF off my computer -- seemed to be the proper thing to do!

I &lt;b&gt;did&lt;/b&gt; post something on &quot;centered sets&quot;, though, if you&#039;re interested.

BTW, the conversation in the comments at &lt;a href=&quot;http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/tallskinnykiwi/2005/07/da_carson_and_t_1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tall Skinny Kiwi&lt;/a&gt; is an amazing example of how people should be dialoguing online. Heat &lt;b&gt;and&lt;/b&gt; light, and not a little fruit. HT&#039;s all around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole thing reminds me of the &#8220;centered set&#8221; analogy that the Vineyard had to look at back in the day. I had downloaded the PDF earlier today, so I had a chance to read it, but I won&#8217;t be commenting on it here or at my blog. In fact, I just &#8220;trashed&#8221; the PDF off my computer &#8212; seemed to be the proper thing to do!</p>
<p>I <b>did</b> post something on &#8220;centered sets&#8221;, though, if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
<p>BTW, the conversation in the comments at <a href="http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/tallskinnykiwi/2005/07/da_carson_and_t_1.html" rel="nofollow">Tall Skinny Kiwi</a> is an amazing example of how people should be dialoguing online. Heat <b>and</b> light, and not a little fruit. HT&#8217;s all around.</p>
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		<title>By: Brother Maynard</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8495</link>
		<dc:creator>Brother Maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8495</guid>
		<description>There is good discussion and basic resolution over at the TSK post on the subject &#151; recommend updated reading there; notable posts from Alan Hirsch and Tony Jones.

So we&#039;re all agreed, then... everybody is (jointly and severally) distancing themselves from the caricature that DA Carson criticized &#151; including Brian McLaren, who isn&#039;t fairly represented by the caricature.

To &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.william-shakespeare.info/&quot; title=&quot;William Shakespeare&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;quote The Bard&lt;/a&gt;, &quot;All&#039;s well that ends well.&quot;  Perhaps it&#039;s just slightly premature to say so, but this has all the forebodings of a good ending.


Garth,

Don Carson has afaik not been willing to dialogue.  He chose the course of public debate through published writings, but has not answered any of the responses, so it seems a bit disingenuous on his part... but it does mean that responses to Carson must be done in a public forum through the release of statements and papers, as Forge has done.  I do hope we&#039;ll see an amended statement from Forge that meets their (quite understandable) objective without offending the Emergent (EV) folk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is good discussion and basic resolution over at the TSK post on the subject &#8212; recommend updated reading there; notable posts from Alan Hirsch and Tony Jones.</p>
<p>So we&#8217;re all agreed, then&#8230; everybody is (jointly and severally) distancing themselves from the caricature that DA Carson criticized &#8212; including Brian McLaren, who isn&#8217;t fairly represented by the caricature.</p>
<p>To <a href="http://www.william-shakespeare.info/" title="William Shakespeare" rel="nofollow">quote The Bard</a>, &#8220;All&#8217;s well that ends well.&#8221;  Perhaps it&#8217;s just slightly premature to say so, but this has all the forebodings of a good ending.</p>
<p>Garth,</p>
<p>Don Carson has afaik not been willing to dialogue.  He chose the course of public debate through published writings, but has not answered any of the responses, so it seems a bit disingenuous on his part&#8230; but it does mean that responses to Carson must be done in a public forum through the release of statements and papers, as Forge has done.  I do hope we&#8217;ll see an amended statement from Forge that meets their (quite understandable) objective without offending the Emergent (EV) folk.</p>
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		<title>By: Garth</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8494</link>
		<dc:creator>Garth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8494</guid>
		<description>To be honestâ€¦.I wonder if it is really necessary to bother. It seems that christians always have problems with other christiansâ€¦and then we become fixated on the fine detail. The peoples of Africa still starveâ€¦.postmoderns still have the wrong perception of Godâ€¦.the â€˜needâ€™ hasnâ€™t gone away!

In the end we can hung up on detail and still agree that we are brothers and sistersâ€¦all savedâ€¦ all on a journey of transformationâ€¦.. that leads to works in Himâ€¦ that bring people into a saving experience of Christ!

I (as many do) have issue with some of contemporary christianity and yet I will embrace my christian adversaries as intimate family. 

Perhaps there is is need to engage Don Carson, but letâ€™s do it personally, not across the internet. In the end we must be true to the revelation given to us. 

I think that we should simply continue in the revelation given to us. Any correspondence to Don should be personal to him. And if he doesnâ€™t agreeâ€¦well he continues to be an intimate brother and mate who at this stage, doesnâ€™t see it the way we do and still his worldview remains acurate for those he preaches to and as thus is validâ€¦.big deal !!

Don has some great teachings but may well miss this stage in history. Letâ€™s not get stuck in potential justifications and simply DO IT..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honestâ€¦.I wonder if it is really necessary to bother. It seems that christians always have problems with other christiansâ€¦and then we become fixated on the fine detail. The peoples of Africa still starveâ€¦.postmoderns still have the wrong perception of Godâ€¦.the â€˜needâ€™ hasnâ€™t gone away!</p>
<p>In the end we can hung up on detail and still agree that we are brothers and sistersâ€¦all savedâ€¦ all on a journey of transformationâ€¦.. that leads to works in Himâ€¦ that bring people into a saving experience of Christ!</p>
<p>I (as many do) have issue with some of contemporary christianity and yet I will embrace my christian adversaries as intimate family. </p>
<p>Perhaps there is is need to engage Don Carson, but letâ€™s do it personally, not across the internet. In the end we must be true to the revelation given to us. </p>
<p>I think that we should simply continue in the revelation given to us. Any correspondence to Don should be personal to him. And if he doesnâ€™t agreeâ€¦well he continues to be an intimate brother and mate who at this stage, doesnâ€™t see it the way we do and still his worldview remains acurate for those he preaches to and as thus is validâ€¦.big deal !!</p>
<p>Don has some great teachings but may well miss this stage in history. Letâ€™s not get stuck in potential justifications and simply DO IT..</p>
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		<title>By: andrew jones</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8492</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 07:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8492</guid>
		<description>i just took my link off also</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i just took my link off also</p>
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		<title>By: bob hyatt</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8491</link>
		<dc:creator>bob hyatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8491</guid>
		<description>he keeps going, and going, and going... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>he keeps going, and going, and going&#8230; :)</p>
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		<title>By: Brother Maynard</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8490</link>
		<dc:creator>Brother Maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8490</guid>
		<description>Note - Daryl&#039;s comment slid in just before my &quot;Update&quot; paragraph, so that&#039;s the &quot;last&quot; paragraph to which he refers.

You guys are quick on the draw &#151; veteran bloggers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note &#8211; Daryl&#8217;s comment slid in just before my &#8220;Update&#8221; paragraph, so that&#8217;s the &#8220;last&#8221; paragraph to which he refers.</p>
<p>You guys are quick on the draw &#8212; veteran bloggers!</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://subversiveinfluence.com/2005/07/carson-v-emergent-v-forge/comment-page-1/#comment-8489</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?p=300#comment-8489</guid>
		<description>I love your last paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your last paragraph.</p>
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